On Thursday, May 10th 2012, I had the opportunity to interview Mr. Terry Didion. Terry was a student at the University of Minnesota from 1962 to 1965. In the summers, he worked for the Great Northern as a dishwasher on the Empire Builder and the Western Star. During the school year, he avoided scheduling Friday afternoon classes so that he could earn extra money by working the GN's Red River and Dakotan. 1145 and 1146 were regulars on the Red River, so the following are the recollections of a young man who worked in my kitchen. We talked for a couple hours in 1146's dining room - me furiously taking notes as Terry remembered one story after another, fifty years after they happened. I have not edited - other than redacting names and expanding my shorthand. Our conversation is transcribed here as I recorded it.
The Chicago hotel - "Atlantic" - was segregated. Black crew members stayed in another hotel. The Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited and the Great Northern's Empire Builder laid over in the CB&Q yard.
Terry worked 1962 - 1965. It started as a High School job. His Uncle had been in World War II railroad service and knew someone in the GN dining car department. Being 18 was required - Terry was 17 and lied about his age to get the job.
The pay was $2.25 an hour. Terry started out washing dishes - the "4th Cook". The Seattle World's Fair was going on his first year. Trains were packed! Normally there were three cooks on the Empire Builder, but for the fair they had four. The Western Star ran in two sections during the fair. The first section was passengers and the second mail. After the fair the Western Star was combined in one section - mail on the rear.
The Empire Builder was a higher-class train than the Western Star. On the Builder, the 3rd cook made muffins from scratch. (Blueberry, Bran and Cinnamon-Raisin.) Mashed potatoes were made from scratch. They had to be peeled, boiled, and then riced with a potato ricer. Pies were also made from scratch. The Western Star, on the other hand, served pies from the Commissary and instant mashed potatoes.
The Red River ran from St Paul to Fargo. It left at 5 pm and arrived at 9:30 pm. The return trip the following day also left at 5 pm and arrived at 9:30 pm. If there was a big load, Terry would stay overnight at the "Bison" Hotel. Otherwise he'd stay up and catch the Empire Builder home at 2:00 am.
The Western Star's crew dormitory was in the Coffee Shop car. Working on the Western Star paid the same, but the dormitory was closer. The Empire Builder's Ranch Car was a larger version of the Western Star's coffee shop. It was for coach passengers and ran three cars ahead of the diner. They served sandwiches and fried stuff. (There was a deep fryer - so yes there was boiling oil on board.)
Cooks were supposed to use the restroom in the crew dormitory. On the Empire Builder this was way at the front of the train. Meanwhile, the Pullman Porters staffing the sleeping cars were supposed to pay for their meals - although at a reduced cost. It was common for the cooks to make a deal with the Porter in the nearest sleeping car: Free meals in exchange for use of their restroom. This saved the cook's time and the Porters took home more of their pay. The first supper seating was at five, so the Porter would place his dinner order around 4:45.
The Dakotan ran from St Paul through Fargo, Grand Forks, and Devil's Lake to Minot. It left at 8:00 am. (Later the Red River and the Dakotan were combined and called the Dakotan, but only ran from St Paul to Fargo.) Terry usually turned at Hillsboro - a 1/2 hour layover waiting for the eastbound version of the train. He seldom worked through to Minot, so for the rest of the trip the cook was on his own. The Dakotan and the Red River normally operated with one cook and one waiter in the diner, although they would add an extra cook for big loads.
The Dakotan and the Red River served mostly sandwiches, hamburgers and chips, pies from the Commissary, and instant mashed potatoes. The GN Commissary still stands, across from the St Paul Union Depot. (Note to self - which building is it?)
A typical routine when working the Empire Builder was loading food in the evening, sleeping on the train, and getting up at 4:00 am.
All stoves on the Empire Builder were gas-fired.
Boy Scout specials utilized older cars from the yard and the "State" diners. (These were most likely cars 1030-1039, built by Pullman in 1924 for the Oriental Limited. They were named "Oregon", "Wisconsin", "Minnesota", "Iowa", "Montana", "Idaho", "Washington", "Illinois", "North Dakota" and "South Dakota". (Ed: John Goodman says "New York" survives at a museum in British Columbia.) The Boy Scout trains were a last stand, as by the late 1960's Equipment Diagrams book, only 1032 survived - having been "streamlined" in 1953.) These diners had charcoal stoves which Terry disliked - he had to start at 3:00 am to get the stove lit, giving it extra time to warm up and be ready to use. Food served to the Boy Scouts included Hamburgers, mashed potatoes and corn.
The Empire Builder was serviced by the Burlington in Chicago. On the other end, the Builder had a 7:30 am until 3:00 pm layover in Seattle, and the Western Star an 11:00 pm until 9:00 pm layover.
The Western Star's diner laid over at the St Paul Commissary. (Terry did not remember the Coffee Shop cars.) The Commissary was located next to the Mississippi Street Coach Yard - very near the Jackson Street Roundhouse - until razed to make way for Interstate 35E. At that time the Commissary duties were moved into the same building which housed J. J. Hill's office, near the St Paul Union Depot.
One cook was a boozer. He used Heinz Vinegar bottles (of the amber-colored Vinegar.) He would order several and empty one, refilling it with Whiskey cut with water to match the Vinegar color, taking an occasional nip throughout the day.
Sammy - a conductor on the Burlington - made his Uniform buttons of $5 gold pieces. These were US currency, about the size of a Nickel.
In 1962 and 1963, Burlington E-units pulled the Empire Builder from Chicago to Havre. The Great Northern's A-B-B-A F units handled the Havre to Seattle section of the run.
Passenger train crews had no access to the Railway Post Office. The postal clerks were issued 45's and the RPO doors were locked. The Western Star had lots of mail stops. There was a mail slot in the side of the RPO so letters could be mailed from outside the train. They also picked up mail bags hung from a mail crane at speed. Plates were applied to the outside of the RPO behind the mail hook to prevent dents.
Coach-diners 1145 and 1146 were on the Red River in during Terry's college years (1962-1965.) He attended the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, and would avoid signing up for Friday afternoon classes so that he could work Friday night - Sunday morning trips for cash. During the summer, when not taking classes, he would work longer jobs on the Empire Builder and the Western Star. The Red River consist was an E7, a baggage car, coach-diner 1145 or 1146 and two or three coaches. The dining car staff was one cook and one waiter. Being a college kid, Terry served as a helper cook.
They did not use table cloths on the Red River, just the map place mats. He remembers the Maple slat floors in the kitchen, and using hot water & Comet to clean. The steam table by the stove was used mostly for warming. The Empire Builder had a broiler (unlike 1145 & 1146?) which is where the head cook stayed. It was a rule to never open the kitchen's side door while moving. The soap used in the dishwasher was a green powder, which made the water look like Lime Kool-Aid. Plates were stored in the cabinet above the stove to warm them - always remember to close the doors! Also dinner rolls and bread. In a full-sized diner, waiters & cups would be on the other side of the end wall. Oatmeal was made on the steam table.
On the Red River, only the sandwiches were made from scratch.
When busing tables, dirty dishes went into a dish rack which sat on the flip-up section of counter in front of the kitchen side door, to the left of the dish washer. When full, the rack of dirty dishes was lowered into the open-top dish washer for fifteen to twenty minutes, and then moved to the sanitizing sink (Very hot!) Terry brought his own rubber spray nozzle. Two dish racks were carried, one being filled while the other was being washed.
1145 and 1146 had a door screen then. Kitchen repairs were nicely done - one would never have seen a "booger weld" then.
I asked about the holder mounted high on the wall by the kitchen entry. Terry said it held special instructions for tour groups.
The garbage can was located under the flip-up section of counter top, in front of the kitchen side door.
Bread came in a box. One always saved the box to use as an extra garbage can in case of delays. When full, it was tossed out the vestibule door when no one was looking. This was *not* done at a station.
It was also not allowed to drain the sink in a station, and the toilets were locked while stopped at a station.
The Red River, being a short-haul train, never saw the diner full.
Dining room tables were cleaned an set with place mats, salt and pepper shakers, and real silverware. The uniforms required separate buttons, which were green and held on with safety pins. Rectangular paper hats were worn, which had green trim and said "Great Northern". The company provided the jacket, while the employee was expected to provide boots, white socks, slacks and a shirt. Boots were to be black leather, just over the ankle, with rubber soles and without steel toes. They usually ended up coated with grease. Terry would bring a change of clothes for the trip in a bag, which he kept on his bunk. He always got the top bunk. Crews had to make their own beds. At the end of a trip they'd strip the sheets and put them in a laundry bag at the end of the hall.
The dining car crew did not have much interaction with the train crew.
Terry remembered one incident, which cleaning a Ranch car in the Cascades at night. The train stopped, so he opened the side door for fresh air. A bum was nearby, sitting in a Jeep smoking. "Sure am hungry - got anything?" Terry had five hamburgers he was going to throw away.
Commissaries for the long-distance trains were located at Chicago, St Paul and Seattle. In an emergency, one could order ahead to a station master - such as a case of milk in cartons, for example.
He was never in a wreck or derailment.
A cook book was kept in the car - loose leaf in a 3-ring binder.
He worked the train to Winnipeg once or twice. It was a seven or eight pm departure from St Paul Union Depot, one or two hours of making sandwiches, followed by bed and then breakfast in the morning. An overnight train, it carried three to four sleepers and three to four coaches.
The Empire Builder connected with the Great Northern's only RDC in Havre. (The Great Falls run?)
The Winnipeg Limited (overnight between St Paul, MN and Winnipeg, MB) had a small dining area built into an sleeper. The staff was one waiter and one cook. There was no dormitory car - the crew took a bed in a sleeper. (Editor's note: There were two equipment sets. The dining area was in either 1198 "Manitoba Club" or 1199 "Winnipeg Club". Rebuilt from "Glacier" sleepers 1175 and 1177, which had four double bedrooms in the center of the car, where the ride was the smoothest, and sixteen duplex roomettes. Rebuilt by Pullman in 1956, the interior from the center to the blind end was changed to a kitchen, 1146-like dining tables seating twelve, and lounge chairs for twelve. The rest of the consist was two E7 locomotives, 30' RPO-baggage, baggage, three 48-seat coaches, the "Club" car, a "Pass" 6-roomette 5-double bedroom 2-compartment sleeper, and a "Glacier" 16-duplex roomette 4-double bedroom car.)
Dining car staff was not strictly segregated by race. Although waiters were mostly black, there were a couple white. Similarly, kitchen staff was mostly white but there were a couple black. (John Goodman adds: Even up to Amtrak, the GN typically had white kitchen staff and a white Steward running the dining room, and black waiters. In the rest of the train, the conductor and engine crew were white and the Pullman Porters black.)
Waiters would often give $30-$40 of their tips to the cooks.
One black (light-skinned) cook in the late 40's/early 50's worked the railroad all the time.
Staff who had started working in the 20's saw the decline in the passenger business and worried about the future. (Editorial: On May 1st, 1971 - seven years after Mr. Didion worked the GN trains - successor company Burlington Northern turned all passenger trains over to the newly-formed quasi-Government Agency Amtrak. Of the trains Mr. Didion worked, Amtrak kept only the Empire Builder.)
There was talk of mergers. (Editorial: The 1970 merger of the GN into the Burlington Northern followed a mid-60's attempt which was blocked by the Interstate Commerce Commission.) Employees in their 50's and 60's, without much formal education, worried about their jobs.
Some chefs were hard to work for. I.N. was just a jerk - close to retirement at the time.
Mr. Didion said that he hasn't run into other railroad alumni much since working for the GN in college.
The railroad got a lot of college traffic in the winter.
Mr. Didion maybe worked coach-diners 1145/1146 ten times a winter. It was good money.
When working, he caught a return trip and did not stay overnight. Got on the eastbound Empire Builder at Fargo, and got on the train as far forward as possible to avoid waking coach passengers at 2:00 am, to get to his bunk.
The Red River(?) was dinner-only in the 60's - no lunch or breakfast. The train parked in the siding by the Fargo depot (on the track farthest from the depot) with lights out and the engine shut down. (Editorial: The lights were lit by axle-driven generator and storage battery, so they would have to be turned off unless each car was plugged into shore power.)
The original Red River was a Grand Forks-Fargo-St Paul daily round trip. It was cut back in '61(?) The job was six a.m. - 2/3 - midnight.
He doesn't remember car cleaners in Fargo.
Havre, Minot and Fargo were garbage stops on the Empire Builder. A wagon would pull up and exchange trash cans - on the opposite side of the train from the passenger platform. No plastic liners - trash cans were steam cleaned.
The kitchen crew had to watch their water usage. (Ed: 1146 carries 400 gallons.) Dishes were rinsed quickly (Ed: under the faucet) to minimize water use. The tanks were refilled at garbage stops. A near-empty tank would slosh, putting air in the line, so a "psh psh psh" sound in the water line was a warning that they were about out of water.
Mr. Didion got to ride a local train once - 12-4 a.m. - while waiting to substitute on an eastbound for a sick cook.
Kitchen staff grazed. They could not eat steaks or other top-end stuff like Lobster. They might snack at a corner table during a lull or eat while working in the kitchen. It was usually a plate of meat or fish. He got tired of fried foods in the Ranch Car/Coffee Shop.
One Great Northern recipe was a hot Apple Pie with a brown crock of cheddar cheese - he thought it was odd.
They always had Apple Pie. Sometimes they also had Blackberry or Cherry - whatever the second cook made. Pumpkin Pie was had in season.
Salisbury steak and Meatloaf were staples. A "Plate of Meat" was prepared by the Chef from ground beef on the train. A "Plate of Fish" came frozen from the Commissary, and was cooked on the stove and kept warm there.
Cream of Wheat and Oatmeal were breakfast staples. It was a bitch to clean the kettles - they had to soak for two hours.
There was not much in the way of portion control.
They also had baked and Mashed Potatoes, warmed vegetables from cans, and heat and serve dinner rolls.
Twice-baked taters were laborious.
There were six to eight four-inch tin pans for eggs - "Over Easy" was just "Sunny Side Up" flipped over on the plate.
Lots of cast iron cookware was used in the kitchen.
Toast was served on a white doily on a small plate (cut diagonally.)
They cooked lots of Pancakes and French toast were - served with a silver cover to keep them warm. They also served Bacon, Ham, and Sausage patties. Never Omelets or Waffles.
Butter was kept melted in a container on the steam table, and ladled onto the toast. Jelly came in pint(?) jars, which the waiters kept on their side. Butter came in pats, separated by paper.
Malted Milks were made with a malt mixer of Milk and Ice Cream. Not served in the main diner. Rather, in the Coffee Shop or Ranch Car. Carnation Malt came in a one gallon metal container. Hershey Chocolate was available but not a big item.
Pop was sold in cans. (Not in the full diner.) That was before the easy-open pull tabs. It took a can opener to punch a hole in the top of the pop can. (The cans were like the 1972 can I found in the table leg, but solid on both ends.)
On the lower level of the Empire Builder's full dome Lounge car, a fellow mixed drinks and sold pop for ten cents.
Water was served from the tap - there was no bottled water. Milk was always whole milk.
There was no such thing as "diet" food or drinks.
Neither Jell-O nor pudding were served.
Mr. Didion does not remember the Great Northern having any "signature" dishes.
The Empire Builder always had fresh flowers on the dining car tables, picked up from station agents along the line. The tables in the full diner used white linen table cloths and silver service. There were seatings at five, six, seven, eight and sometimes nine p.m. - both on the Empire Builder and the Western Star.
1145 and 1146 served as snack bars on the Red River. People would order a Coke, smoke and play cards.
Food service paper was only used in the Ranch Car for [whatever]-in-a-basket.
Fries were crinkle-cut and came frozen in one-gallon paper bags.
The drains in the center trough of the kitchen floor had caps.
The refrigerator in the blind-end corner of 1146 must have been used by the waiter for drinks? Mr. Didion doesn't remember.
